An expanded
version of this article appears in the book, Early Highland Dress, by
Matthew. A. C. Newsome
Spiral Bound Paperback for $15.95
Now available on CD-ROM (Adobe
software included) for $12.95
The kilt . . . an ancient and noble garment .
. . remnant of the early Celtic race of Caledonia. These are some of
the pervading attitudes that one might encounter at the various Scottish
festivals and Highland Games around the country today. Of course, ask
an Irishman, and he will tell you that the kilt was actually an ancient garment
from Ireland and only later brought into Scotland by migrating Gaels, and
moreover the Irish also invented the bagpipes, whisky, and whatever else
you care to name. Ask an Englishman and he will tell you how Thomas
Rawlinson, an English native, invented the kilt in the 18th century!
Most of our ideas about the kilt are based on myth, legend, misconceptions,
and (worse yet) Hollywood. Braveheart may get your blood up,
but depict anything remotely like historically accurate clothing it does
not. I will attempt here to present the reader with some hard, solid
facts about just when and where the kilt was developed (and when and where
it was not), focusing mostly on the early, pre-seventeenth century period.
The majority of information used in this presentation
can be found in the book Old Irish and Highland Dress by H. F. McClintock.
This book contains more primary source documentation for Gaelic clothing
(Ireland and Scotland as well as some on the Isle of Man) for early periods
than any other source. It is a must read for anyone serious in the
study of the Gaelic dress. It was originally published in 1943 by Dundalgan
Press in Scotland, but had been long out of print and copies were hard to
come by. Fortunately for us, it has been recently put back in print
by Scotpress, here in the United States.
EARLY KILT IN IRELAND?
There is a widespread belief that persists nowadays
of the kilt being the traditional and ancient dress in Ireland, and only later
introduced into Scotland. Let me say that no evidence of any kind can
be found in the early Irish records to support this. McClintock has
an extensive section in his book dealing with early Irish dress and nothing
he includes can be said to be a kilt. Often times a writer trying to
support this argument will point to one of the many stone carvings on crosses
and monuments in Ireland that date before the 11th century and claim the figures
are wearing kilts. In each of these cases, without fail, what is actually
pictured is a leine, or Irish tunic. This may have a skirt reaching
to the knee, but the skirt is simply the lower extension of the tunic and
not a separate garment as the kilt is. This is in no way related to
the kilt and cannot be said to be an early form of one. The reader is
referred to my article
on the leine
for further treatment of this topic. Pictured is a scene from the Cross
of the Scriptures in Clonmacnois. The short tunic here is often mistaken
for a kilt.
Another source of confusion is the many figures
of soldiers and knights wearing quilted armor. Various figures abound
in Ireland (as well as Scotland) from the early Middle Ages of men in actons
(called cotuns in Irish). These are long, heavy, tunics that have
been quilted and padded and serve as a light armour. Often in the carvings
the quilting is depicted with vertical lines running down the tunic.
This is often mistaken for pleating, and since the actons reach the knee,
they are often claimed to be representations of kilts. On such figures
where the acton can be seen in full, however, it is painfully obvious that
the quilting lines run all the way up the body and that the skirt is simply
the lower part of a long tunic—not like the kilt at all.
If we move further in time to the 16th century,
once more we will find representations of Irish men that are supposed to
be wearing kilts. The most frequently cited of them come from Derricke’s
Image of Ireland, published in 1581. He shows many figures
wearing garments with heavily pleated skirts that appear to be modern kilts.
What these men are actually wearing are leines (the plural in Gaelic in leinte),
which by this time had evolved into wrap around shirts with wide, hanging
sleeves and elaborately pleated skirts. That these men are wearing
leinte and not kilts is made obvious by Derrick himself when he writes:
Their shirts be very strange.
Not reaching past the thigh.
With pleats on pleats they pleated are
As thick as pleats may lie.
Whose sleeves hang trailing down.
Almost unto the shoe . . .
This is obviously a description of the leine (shirt) and not of any
form of kilt.
from Derricke’s Image of Ireland
Nowhere, not once, has good solid evidence been presented
to support the wearing of the kilt in Ireland. And only since the
mid-19th century, at the absolute earliest, has it even been suggested that
the kilt was early worn in Ireland. These were primarily Scottish writers
trying to assert the antiquity of the kilt in Scotland, by saying it was
brought over by the Irish Scotti tribe. Irish writers of the time never
mention the wearing of the kilt at all.
THE KILT IN MEDIEVAL SCOTLAND?
Now we shall deal with the misconception that the
kilt is a form of medieval dress. We can’t blame this on Braveheart
, as the notion existed before its release, but the movie certainly did
nothing to help matters. It depicts Scottish Highlanders (and Lowlanders)
in the late 13th century wearing poor imitations of kilted garments from
the 17th century and painting their faces blue with woad in good 2nd century
fashion. Is it any wonder people are confused?
Often when one goes to medieval reenactments and
Renaissance Faires one will encounter men in very modern kilts with what are
sold as “Jacobite” shirts. These people are simply believing what they
have been told—that the kilt is a medieval garment—and accepting that at
face value. I have even sat around one SCA campfire and been approached
by a young man in full Highland Dress—modern Highland Dress. He was
wearing a tailored tartan kilt, modern kilt hose, elastic garters, modern
patent leather dress shoes, a white button shirt with a tartan tie, and
Balmoral bonnet with his crest badge. He thought because it was Scottish
that it was medieval. We cannot blame people for suffering from these
misconceptions. It is what they have been taught by the poorly researched
“myths” that pass for Scottish history. So let’s see what we actually
do know to be fact about early Highland dress.
The earliest entry in McClintock for Scotland
is from 1093. He quotes a document called the Magnus Berfaet saga,
in which King Magnus ventures to the Western Isles of Scotland and adopts
the dress he finds there. “They went about barelegged having short
tunics and also upper garments, and so many men called him ‘Barelegged’ or
‘Barefoot.’” Those wishing to prove the early existence of a kilt almost
always cite this document, but nowhere in the document is a kilt mentioned.
People overly willing to sacrifice fact for their desire to date the kilt
to antiquity jump at the fact that these men went barelegged and make the
assumption that if they were not wearing trousers then they must have been
wearing a kilt. But this assumption is completely invalid as the kilt
is mentioned nowhere in this document, and the clothing that is mentioned
consists of a tunic and an upper garment which corresponds perfectly with
the contemporary dress of the Irish Gaels of the time—the leine and brat.
The next mention of Highland Dress we get from
McClintock is from the 16th century. Let me stress that nowhere is
there to be found evidence to suggest the wearing of any form of kilt in
Scotland in the time period before the 16th century. People may claim
various early dates for the wearing of the kilt, but I have yet to see hard
evidence for it. Most often what people are claiming to be a kilt is
merely a depiction of a leine, tunic, or acton.
The type of kilt that we will begin to encounter
in the 16th century is called (in my poor Gaelic) a feilidh-mhor
(great wrap), a breacan-feile (tartan wrap) or simply a belted plaid.
All refer to the same garment. I prefer the latter for ease of use.
A plaid or plaide is a length of heavy woolen fabric worn over the body
like a mantle or a shawl. It has nothing to do with the modern American
usage of the word plaid, except that they were often of a tartan pattern,
which “plaid” is synonymous with in America. A belted plaid is simply
a very long plaid that had been gathered into folds and belted around the
body. It is often called in modern reenactment circles a “great kilt.”
Despite what you saw in Braveheart the belted plaid was not worn in
the 13th and 14th centuries. The belted plaid costumes worn in that
movie were not even very good representations of the belted plaids.
I honestly do not know how the costumers could have claimed to have done
any historical research—they simply designed a garment that they thought
looked both Scottish and medieval.
The first reference to anything that may possibly
be taken as a belted plaid comes as late as 1578. One Bishop Lesley,
writing in Rome, says of the Highland Scots:
Their clothing was made for use (being chiefly suited for
war) and not for ornament. All, both nobles and common people, wore
mantles of one sort (except that the nobles preferred those of several colours).
These were long and flowing, but capable of being neatly gathered up at
pleasure into folds.
He goes on to describe the rest of the outfit, but it is this section
that demands our attention. The mantle he describes can be taken for
a plaid (or what the Irish may call a brat). The curious fact is that
he suggests that these were somehow gathered up into folds. What he
means is unclear. It is suggested that this refers to the practice of
pleating the length of the plaid and belting it around the waist as in the
belted plaid. But we must be careful in assuming too much for Lesley
never mentions a belt and his description would imply that the plaids were
able to be worn gathered as well as unfolded, and certainly the large
belted plaid as we think of it is too large to be comfortably worn unfolded.
We should remain open to the possibility that they could refer to some early
usage of the belted plaid but in no way can we claim that this is definitely
a form of the kilt.
Another document from this period that
is very often cited as describing a kilt is George Buchanan’s history of
Scotland published in 1581. He describes the Highland dress this way:
Their ancestors wore plaids of many colours, and numbers
still retain this custom but the majority now in their dress prefer a dark
brown, imitating nearly the leaves of the heather, that when lying upon the
heath in the day, they may not be discovered by the appearance of their clothes;
in these wrapped rather than covered, they brave the severest storms in
the open air, and sometimes lay themselves down to sleep even in the midst
of snow.
This document attests to the rugged constitution of the Highlander,
and the fact that the plaids were used as protection from the elements and
a form of camouflage as well as a mode of dress. Since it refers to
plaids and seems to indicate a tartan pattern, many eagerly assume this is
a kilt or belted plaid. But such an assumption would be invalid as
no form of pleating or belting is mentioned and all of his descriptions are
equally valid of an unbelted plaid (i.e. a mantle or brat) which we know
to have been worn with frequency.
The truth of the matter is that only
one document has yet been found that dates from before 1600 and without a
doubt describes a belted plaid, the earliest form of the kilt. It is
an Irish source, written in Gaelic. In the Life of Red Hugh O’Donnell
written by Lughaidh O’Clery, we read of a group of hired mercenaries from
the Scottish Hebrides, employed by O’Donnell in 1594.
These were recognized among the Irish by the difference
of their arms and clothing, their habits and language, for their exterior
dress was mottled cloaks to the calf of the leg with ties and fastenings.
Their girdles were over the loins outside the cloaks.
Here we have the first definite mention of the belt being worn around
the outside of the mantle—the hallmark of the belted plaid. And it
is clear from the context of the description that it was also definitely
not an Irish mode of dress and was characteristic of the Scots among them.
It may be possible that the belted plaid was worn or at least in development
some time prior to this description, but the hard fact remains that this
is the first proof we have of its existence and anything earlier is mere
speculation. Keep in mind that McClintock describes 10 mentions of
Highland dress in Scotland prior to this in date and of those 10 only the
two mentioned above contain anything that could remotely be suggestive of
a belted plaid. If the belted plaid was being worn with any regularity
I think these other writers would have made at least passing mention of it
in their descriptions of Highland dress.
The earliest picture we have of a
belted plaid comes from after 1600. The exact dating is uncertain
but it would seem to be from the
first decade of the 17th century. And there are ample 17th century
references to the belted plaid so we know its use became nearly universal
among the Gaelic Highlanders. When trying to recreate one of the first
belted plaids from the late 16th century, it is necessary to extrapolate from
what we know of the garment from later times. We know is was untailored.
It consisted of a length of woolen material or a linen-wool blend, most
often of tartan pattern (although solid colors were worn as one 1635 portrait
of a Campbell chief attests to--he is wearing a solid red belted plaid).
The length would appear to have been between 4 and 5 yards (although there
is evidence for a range of between 3 and 6, perhaps 7).
One will often hear it repeated that
the plaids had to be at least 9 yards. Often it is 10, 12 or even 16.
In fact, I have seen one web page where the author suggests a length
of 30 yards--that is 90 feet of heavy woolen material! It seems there
is no limit to the excess of people's imaginations. The "9-yard" myth
has its foundation in the records of the 17th and 18th century that show where
often 8 or 9 yards of tartan are purchased for the making of a belted plaid.
What one needs to realize is that this material was only about 25” to 30"
wide, and the plaid had to be wide enough to reach from the knees to above
the head. So two widths of material would be sewn together to get a
50” to 60" width. Therefore 9 yards of tartan material would make a
plaid 4.5 yards long. This corresponds with the earliest surviving tailored
kilts we have, which all contain about 4 yards of cloth. Certainly 5 is enough
for a man of any girth—too much for some.
I will go into some detail here of
how to put on the belted plaid. Beware of any who tell you “This is
the authentic way it was done—period!” People love to take a little
bit of knowledge, act like the expert, and tell everyone where they need
to be corrected. If you go to Highland Games, Renaissance Festivals,
or reenactments you will find all manner of people who can tell you that
the way you wear your kilt is wrong and the way they wear theirs is right.
Forgive me if I say they are all bunk. I am one of the few people
who can claim to wear the kilt professionally and even I have people approach
me with corrections.
The truth is that we have absolutely
no idea how people put on the belted plaid. What we have are scant descriptions
of how they looked and were used when worn, and pictures of people wearing
them. Nowhere do there exist written instructions on how it was put
on. Imagine if you will living in some future time when everything
is fastened with Velcro. You work at a museum of 20th century clothing
and you are trying to tie the shoelaces on a pair of reproduction sneakers.
You have pictures of the way people tied their shoes in the 20th century,
but no written instructions. No one wrote down how to tie his or her
shoes because everyone grew up learning it at an early age. The same
is true of the belted plaid. All we have to go on are the pictures.
Any way we can put on the plaid so that the end result looks like our documentation
is a valid method. Most likely they had a variety of ways of putting
it on themselves depending on time period, local custom, and personal preference.
Here is one way.
Begin by laying your material out
on the ground. To start, you may find it easier to lay it all out neatly,
but once you get used to doing this, you will not need as much room—you
will only need to spread out the section you are currently pleating.
Gather the center part of the plaid into folds or pleats. This does
not need to be neat, precise pleating as in a modern tailored kilt.
Think of it more as being roughly gathered and you will have more authentic
looking kilt. The end goal is to reduce the 4 or 5 yards of material
to a length about 1.5 times your waist measurement. You should aim
to have a section of gathers or folds approximately the length of half your
waist size in the center, with unfolded sections of equal length on either
end. Since these folds are not sewn in, they can always be readjusted
later. Precision is not something needed when folding your plaid.
Lie down on your plaid.
I will frequently have people tell me at this point that it just seems silly
to suggest that the Highlanders would have lain down to get dressed.
But keep in mind that these plaids were also used as sleeping blankets and
the wearer would have more than likely been laying in his plaid already.
I will point out that it is possible to don your belted plaid while standing,
which I have done before myself. But the standing method is difficult
at best when done alone--it is easier done with someone's help. As many
of us do not have personal attendants to help us dress, the laying down method
works the best. You will need to lay down on your plaid, body parallel
to the pleats, so that the lower edge hangs about your knees. Whether
it is above, below, or on your knees is personal choice. There does
not appear to have been a standard length as this woodcut of Scottish soldiers
from 1641 clearly shows.
Wrap the two unpleated ends around you. It
is suggested that you overlap them left over right. There is no historical
basis for this but it is the way modern kilts have always overlapped.
You will need to take a sturdy leather belt and run it around your waist
at this point and fasten it well. If you have anything hanging from
your belt such as a dirk (knife) or sporran (pouch), make sure it is on your
belt before you do this. Every description I have read of how to put
on the belted plaid starts off with having the wearer lay out his belt first
upon the ground and then pleating his material out on top of the belt.
I do not know why people suggest this. It is more difficult this way
and there seems to be no reason for doing so.
Once you have the belt fastened, stand
up. You are now wearing the belted plaid. You will notice a
large amount of material overlapping your belt and hanging down around your
legs. This material can be arranged around your upper body in any number
of ways, depending on the climate and activity level of the wearer.
The illustration above shows some good examples. It is suggested that
the front two corners be pulled around behind your back and tucked in to
the belt at the base of the spine. This will create pockets and allow
easy access to your sporran. The remainder behind you can be pulled
up over your head or shoulders in the cold or rain, or left trailing behind
in heat. It can be pulled up and tucked into your belt, forming a large
bag for carrying. Most often part of it is drawn from the back onto
the left shoulder and part drawn up under the left arm across the front and
pinned together. This will create a large bag under the left arm, and
is quite striking in appearance. The functions of this garment
are many and varied! But remember when wearing it that the primary
concerns are that you are comfortable and covered. Other than that,
feel free to experiment with different ways of arranging it and find one
that works well with you.
Just a few quick notes on how this
large wrap became the kilt of today. I will only touch on this briefly
since this takes us well out of the early period. One story commonly
repeated is that an Englishman named Thomas Rawlinson opened an iron-smelting
factory in the Highlands around the year 1730. His workers all dressed
in the belted plaids, which proved too hot and cumbersome for close work
in his factory. He solved the problem by cutting the garment in half.
The lower part could now be worn separately and the upper part discarded
when coming indoors. This is considered proof that an Englishman invented
the Scottish national dress.
The problem with this story is that
we know of numerous illustrations of Highlanders wearing the only the bottom
part of the belted plaid that date long before Rawlinson ever set foot in
Scotland. Remember that the belted plaid consisted of two widths of
material stitched together. If one neglects to stitch the two together,
and only the bottom 4 yards are worn, pleated and belted around the waist,
the resulting garment is called the feilidh-beag (little wrap).
The word is often spelled in English “phillabeg.” I will not go into
detailed evidence of the wearing of the phillabeg here, but I will say that
there is some suggestion of its use in the late 17th century, and it was definitely
being worn in the early 18th century. It most likely came about as
a natural evolution of the belted plaid and Rawlinson probably observed it
and quickly deduced its usefulness in his situation and introduced it among
his workers.
The first instance we have of the
pleats being sewn in to the phillabeg, creating a true tailored kilt, comes
in 1792. This kilt is in possession of the Scottish Tartans Society
and is currently on display at the Scottish Tartans Museum of Franklin, NC.
It contains 4 yards of tartan, and has wide box pleats that are each sewn
in. This is the first garment that can truly be called a kilt in the
form we know it today. The tailoring and style are different from a
modern kilt, but it is a kilt nonetheless, with its origins in the belted
plaid of the late 16th century.
AND NOW SOME NOTES ON THE TARTAN
One cannot discuss the history of the kilt without
also discussing tartan. Though the notion of a “clan tartan” is a modern
one, far outside any historic period, this question needs to be addressed
for there are many misconceptions regarding tartan among reenactment groups.
The quick answer to any question about pre-industrialized tartan is wear
what you want. You should be more concerned over whether the colors
could be obtained with natural dyes available in the area than what the specific
pattern is. Clans and families simply did not have any identifying
tartans in this early period.
When do we first find tartan in Scotland
and just what is a tartan anyway? The word “tartan” itself probably
derives from the French word tiretaine (the Gaelic word for tartan
is breacan). This word most likely was introduced to Scotland
sometime in the sixteenth century, when Scotland was dynastically linked to
France. Tiretaine was a linsey-woolsey cloth (a woolen-linen
blend). This word referred to the fabric itself, and not to any particular
type of design. It’s uncertain when it occurred, but after some time
the term “tartan” came to be applied specifically to the pattern of interlocking
stripes known in America as “plaid.” The word “plaid” itself comes from
the Scots word “plaide” which referred to the large wrap garment worn in
the Highlands from the late 16th century to the late 18th century that consisted
of about 5 yards of tartan cloth, approximately 60 inches wide, wrapped and
belted around the body—the belted plaid or feilidh-mhor .
The earliest evidence we have of any
tartan (hereafter used to mean any cloth of interlocking stripes) being worn
in Scotland is the Falkirk Tartan, so named for the town it was discovered
in. This is a small sample of tartan material showing a simple dark
and light check, a design also known as a “shepherd’s plaid.” This
small remnant of material is estimated to be from around 250 to 325 AD.
This by no means is the earliest known
tartan in history. One finds tartan patterned cloth almost wherever
a culture had the technology to weave. Recent excavations in Mongolia
reveal Caucasian people wearing tartan patterned clothing that date to over
5000 years ago! Some have pointed at this as proof that clan tartans
have a pre-historic dating, but this is simply not the case.
Tartan was worn originally in Scotland
as a fashionable type of dress. All tartan was, of course, hand woven
and each weaver would take it upon him or herself to create unique and attractive
designs based on the colors of dyes available. Certain colors may have
been more common in certain regions, but there was nothing to prohibit someone
with money from importing various dyes. Certain pattern schemes may
have been more common in one area than another, but nothing approaching modern
clan tartans could be said to have existed.
Imagine talking to a hand weaver of
tartan, a craftsman and an artist, and telling that person that you wanted
them to weave the same pattern of tartan in the same colors for everyone in
the region (regiment, clan, etc.). That pattern was set in stone, could
not be varied from and was to be the only pattern woven for that clan.
Of course they would never have taken such commands! Tartan was and
still is an art form and individual weavers created a wonderful variety of
tartan designs. Plus there is simply no reason to associate the type
and color of dress with a person's family or clan. If we found an early
Spanish portrait of a man in a red shirt named Hernandez, we would never assume
that all Hernandez's wore red shirts! But this is just the assumption
that we so often make for Highland Dress in Scotland.
By the 16th century, when we begin
to see the earliest type of kilted garment (the belted plaid), tartan had
become characteristic of Highland Dress. Gaelic speaking Highlanders
wore tartan of bright and flashy shades to show off wealth and status.
They also favoured darker, natural tones that would emulate the shades of
the bracken and the heather so that they might wrap themselves in their plaids
and be hidden. But the colors chosen had more to do with what dyes were
available to them (either locally or that they could afford to import) and
personal taste than any clan affiliation.
By the time of the Jacobite rebellions
of the 18th century, tartan fashion had become truly outstanding.
Surviving tartan from this period include yellows, purples, golds, greens,
oranges, reds, blues, and any number of other bright colors, woven in ever
more intricate patterns. Often more than one tartan would be worn at
once. Meanwhile, in the Lowlands, tartan shawls (also called plaids)
were worn favouring more simple, black and white designs. When the
massacre at Culloden left the Jacobite forces in ruin, tartan (along with
Highland Dress in general as well as bagpipes) was proscribed. It was
not clan tartan that was being outlawed, but rather tartan as a symbol of
Gaelic Scottishness.
The end of the Jacobite rebellions
also saw an end to the clan system in Scotland. It was not until after
Proscription was repealed some 32 years later that the notion of clan tartans
really began to form—after any effective clan system had been broken and
Anglicized. The first regular, standardized tartans were woven by Lowland
weaver William Wilson, owner of the woolen mill William Wilson & Son’s
of Bannockburn. Wilson was the first commercial, industrial producer
of tartan material. On his mechanical looms, he could repeat the same
pattern of tartan over and over again without fail. In fact, with industrial
looms, it is easier to set the looms to reproduce the same patterns than
it is to constantly change them to make different designs. He at first
assigned these patterns numbers, but it was not long before names began to
be associated with them as well.
I suppose it had as much to do with
salesmanship as anything else. By assigning the name of a romantic clan,
local city, or popular ruling family to a tartan, Wilson could increase his
sales. Of course, a Highland Scot would pay no mind to all of this.
Just because his name was MacDonald, it did not mean he had to purchase
a kilt in the tartan that bore that name. He would buy whatever tartan
he wanted. But the notion that each clan had its own identifying tartan
fit in well with 19th century thought. This century was a very Romantic
time, and notions of “tradition” and “antiquity” had a strong grip on the
people. Writers like Sir Walter Scott added to Scotland’s romantic appeal
and soon tartan was all the rage in England as well. A MacDonald of
Scottish descent, whose family had been living in England, or the United States,
for several generations, might want to reconnect with his Scottish roots.
So he goes to purchase a kilt, and when he sees a tartan with the MacDonald
name, he will buy it, as his "clan" tartan, not knowing any better. Everyone
of Scottish descent wanted to know what “their” clan tartan was. Queen
Victoria loved all things Scottish and insisted when visited by any Highland
chief that he be wearing his clan tartan—even if he didn’t have one!
Even though this system of clan tartans
was still very new, the myth already existed that it was somehow ancient.
People assumed this was a traditional practice, and they were more inclined
to change history to suit their views than to change their views to suit
history. Soon “experts” arose to travel the country with lists of names
placing people into this clan or that one, and telling them what their “ancient
and traditional” clan tartan was. Some of these name lists were based on
historical associations between families, variations of name spellings, geographical
proximity, and often just the fact that they sounded similar. Tartan
books were written, often with little or no supporting evidence. This is
the beginning of our system of “clan tartans.”
To some this is discouraging, but
it does not change the fact that today many Scottish clans and families (as
well as towns, businesses, and districts) are validly represented with a particular
tartan—some 200 years old, some 2 years old. Tartan is as much a part
of Scottish tradition as anything else. But when creating a historic
garment for use within an early reenactment group, do not get caught up in
the tartan craze. Remember that the belted plaid predates the standardization
of tartan and have fun with it!
SEE US ON TV!
The Scottish Tartans Museum was featured June 12, 2008, on "North Carolina
Weekend."
Click
here to view on line (we are the second segment, about 5:55 into the
program).